Des Manderson
Q&A on Twenty Minutes with the Devil
Twenty Minutes With The Devil is part black comedy, part thriller, by Luis Gómez Romero and Desmond Manderson. The play has its world premiere season from 18 – 25 June at The Street Theatre.
Twenty Minutes with the Devil reflects your fascination with the real life story of the capture of El Chapo. When and how did you decide that a play was the best vehicle for your vision?
This play arose out of many conversations over many years about law and justice in the modern world, with my friend and colleague Luis Gómez Romero. Specifically it arose out of a conversation I still remember vividly, from five years ago:
L: You see they captured El Chapo. You know who he is, right?
D: Yes I know that.
L: It was an amazing story – he’s escaped many times before.
D: Yes I know that.
L: No, but that’s not the story. There was this Mexican telenovela star who arranged to meet him –
D: Yes, yes, Sean Penn came along to write something for Rolling Stone but the feds had bugged his phone so he led them right to his hideout. I know that.
L: No, but that’s not the story. He escaped again, through the sewers underneath his property and would have got away, except he got pulled over for speeding.
D: Yes I know all that.
L: No, but that’s not the story. These two cops take him to a hotel and they wait until the army turns up. If it turns up.
D: That I didn’t know.
L: Meanwhile he’s trying to bribe them, threaten them. And they stay put. Why? What did they talk about, two crummy cops and the most wanted man in the world locked together in the middle of the desert? The army’s coming, the cartel’s coming. No-one knows who’s going to live and who’s going to die. What did they say to each other? What did they think about justice?
D: No one knows what they said?
L: That’s the story.
D: No, that’s a play.
Successful writing collaborations in any medium often seem to be a blend of hard work, natural compatibility, and something indefinable. What have been the keys to your collaboration with Luis?
We started as good friends who had known each other and worked with each other for several years. We are still friends!! – working together is not always easy and there have been disagreements and stresses along the way. I think we have both had to learn how to listen very carefully and with an open mind, and without defensiveness, to the views and ideas of the others. This openness has allowed us to write something which I don’t think we could have written, either of us, by ourselves. There has been a considerable division of labour which has also helped. Since Luis’ native tongue is not English, a lot of the final writing, language use and style has fallen to me. But a great deal of the experience, context, and stories about this play, set in an unnamed Latin American country, has come from Luis. Luis has often said that he is the storyteller and I am the poet. That I think is a nice summary of what we have both brought to this work.
What are the major challenges of writing a work that is to be brought to life by performers?
This has been a real learning curve for me – telling stories for the theatre is obviously an entirely different mind-set than for example writing essays or teaching students. I have had to learn about voice, and about embodiment. I have gradually come to appreciate the importance of what you don’t say, the way that a script needs to create spaces to which actors and others can bring their own insights and creativity. The truly collaborative nature of the theatre is both a remarkable opportunity and a real challenge. And above all, Luis and I have both had to learn what it means not just to talk about ideas but to embody them in action – to create dramas that enact themes in a real and convincing way. ‘Show don’t tell’ is a fairly basic maxim, but it has been a critical part of our slowly dawning understanding.
Further to this, how must a playwright build their characters differently to a novelist?
As I have said, I think the key thing is that characters work through bodies and voices. While this is true of novels too, the question of corporeality, of physical expression and presence, is to me much more viscerally part of the imaginative process. It changes how you think of the characters and how you write for them. At the same time, the question of space – of giving actors the space to imagine and build the characters themselves and perhaps of bringing them to life in ways you simply didn’t expect – is fundamental. In some ways, choosing what to include and what to leave out seems to me intrinsic to the discipline of the play in a way that is quite different from the novel.
Walk us through the practical timeline of this project from inception and collaborative writing, to approaching opening night at The Street Theatre.
This project has had immense support over many years. We first started working on a first draft of the play almost five years ago and since then The Street Theatre has provided us with exceptional and ongoing support: residencies where we could work together, workshops with dramaturges and script advisors, multiple runs through with actors, workshops and experimental sessions to explore imagery, gesture, and scenarios. Through all of that the script has developed and changed. It is probably up to about a tenth draft or more I’d say. Now we are in the real rehearsal period and as well as the full time efforts fo the actors we have the benefit fo the wonderful creativity of The Street’s director, and set, lighting and sound designers, all bringing their unique imagination to bear on our work. It is a deep privilege to witness all the work and all the talents that are required to bring something like this to life. To be honest, I had no idea!
What form do you think your next writing project will take?
Good question. I have been absorbed and inspired in the writing process for this in ways that I do not think I have ever experienced before; whole afternoons would vanish in the blink of an eye; I would dream the characters, dream the dialogue, dream solutions to the problems we were facing. It has been captivating and all consuming – everything a writer could wish for. So my answer is – I think I would like to write another play!
What do you hope those who see Twenty Minutes with the Devil will take away with them?
I hope they will have had a memorable experience. The play is both funny and tragic and I would like them to have been moved and captivated by it. But the play is also about serious questions – about the consequences of the global drug war on a place like Mexico, and on the fundamental question for the 21st century – not just elsewhere but right here in Australia and everywhere: how are we going to resolve the crises and the emergencies we face in this world, and how can we bring law and justice – which seem ever more distant from each other, like families divided by a vast and growing river – together again?
Desmond Manderson was a playwright and a musician, before turning to academic life. His books are known around the world for their pioneering approach to exploring questions of law and justice through music, literature, history, philosophy, and art.
